dogon sirius debunkeddogon sirius debunked
Europeans too talked about the discovery of a third star in the Sirius system; later investigations, however, ruled out that possibility. Readers of Skeptic are not so sanguine. What about Sirius? On top of that, there is another star, Sirius B, orbiting at an average distance of about 20 AU (1 AU is the distance between the Earth and Sun). Subscribe to eSkeptic: our free email newsletter and get great podcasts, videos, reviews and articles from Skeptic magazine, announcements, and more in your inbox once or twice a week. Since Oberg cannot do so, we need not concern ourselves with criticisms of The Sirius Mystery." If a European had visited the Dogon in the 1920's and 1930's, conversation would likely have turned to astronomical matters, including Sirius, the brightest star in the sky and the center of Dogon mythology. September 1976 saw of their culture, came from Sirius -- which is at the crux of Temple's reconstruction? Carl Sagan's contribution to this discussion was in his book Broca's Brain (1979). It is a type of fuel that can lead to what Clay Farris Naff cleverly calls the neuron bomb. In this post, Michael Shermer asks, Is there a moral standard that stands above all the worlds religions that is based on some transcendent source?. But it seems that Griaule, a scientist, wanted to attribute to earlier civilisations more knowledge than they actually possessed. Instead, he closed his response to my own article in 1979 with a brushoff: "In my view it is pointless to attack someone in print unless you can substantiate what you are saying. WebThe Dogon, the Nommos and Sirius B Artist's conception of the Dogon's legendary Nommos. answer is that they got this information from amphibious aliens from outer from black Egyptians who had telescopes. As the brightest star in the sky it was known and worshiped by ancient civilizations. The greatest source of error, however, seems to be in Temple's specified location of Behdet. var d=new Date();var n=d.toLocaleDateString();var t=d.toLocaleTimeString(); document.write(n + "
" + t); Want to know your future? The diagram that Temple presents, however, is not the So it merely remains for any interested reader to check and see which of us is correct. The Dogon are a people of about 100,000 who dwell in western Africa. to other visible stars near Sirius as recognition of the invisible the Dogon. The Dogons were not isolated. According to the Dogon, the instructor gods descended from Sirius and brought knowledge and wisdom. Also if it was seeded by westerners how is the Dogon and surrounding tribes have a fully developed culture and religion structure centered around Sirius going back for hundreds of years? Temple's impressive research was encouraged by noted futurist Arthur C, Clarke (although Clarke now prefers the "modern influence" hypothesis). But even after hundreds of pages of myths and interpretations Temple fails to make a connection between ancient Egypt and the modern Dogons; instead he "assumes" it. of Griaule informants, had ever heard or understood that Sirius was a Perhaps the source was Temple All rights reserved. WebDogon and the Sirius Mystery. Sirius B was first observed in 1862, and had been predicted in 1844 on dynamic grounds. Indeed, in view of the Dogon fixation with Sirius it would surely be more surprising if they had not grafted on to their existing legend some new astronomical information gained from Europeans. Skeptic. On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. As the brightest star in the sky it was known and worshiped by ancient civilizations. his informants in such a forceful leading manner that they created new Press J to jump to the feed. myths by confabulation." Its appearance in the dawn sky over Egypt warned of the impending Nile floods and the summer's heat and marked the beginning of the Egyptian calendar. Such words would have more persuasion behind them (to me they're merely an emotional appeal to sympathy) if Temple had ever admitted anywhere in print that he had found (or had been shown) any errors in his book or articles or public statements -- but if he has done so, I haven't become aware of them. But if the error is real, it reflects on the only kind of hard, checkable, testable evidence Temple has offered for his theories. One unproven aspect of the reported Dogon knowledge of the Sirius system is the assertion that the Dogon knew of another star in the Sirius system, Emme Ya, or "larger than Sirius B but lighter and dim in magnitude." One additional disturbing note: That distance has been computed based on a true geodetic oblate spheroid, but even assuming a flat surface would only have introduced an error of a few tenths of one percent at most (Temple obviously didn't know that, or he wouldn't have asserted that measurements even less accurate than that were proof that ancients took Earth's sphericity into account.). scientific equipment, so how could they get this knowledge? extremely dense and has a fifty-year orbit. Its second, 1998, edition is called The Sirius Mystery: New Scientific Evidence of Alien Contact 5,000 Years Ago. extraterrestrials, the Nommos, some 5,000 years ago. It has a mass of 2.35 times the mass of the Sun. Noah Brosch explained in his book Sirius Matters that cultural transfer could have taken place between 19th century French astronomers and Dogon tribe members during the observations of the solar eclipse on 16 April 1893. Melanin Conference, San Francisco, September 16-17, 1987"). Based on Carrolls website (skepdic.com), the Dictionary is the definitive short-answer debunking of nearly every thing skeptical. Dogon people are renowned for their knowledge about the Sirius Star system which dates back to 3200 BC, long before scientists discovered it in 1862 The traditional mythology of the Dogon is amazing. The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. The Nommos descended from the sky in a vessel accompanied by fire and thunder. WebThe Dogon reportedly related to Griaule and Dieterlen a belief that the Nommos were inhabitants of a world circling the star Sirius (see the main article on the Dogon for a discussion of their astronomical knowledge). WebAlso there is the fact that they described the Nommo as fish people and you find all kinds of half man/half fish - serpent imagery all over the Mediterranean. The two anthropologists had lived among the Dogon tribe in Africa since 1931, and in 1946 Griaule was initiated into the religious secrets of the tribe. WebRe: Dogon Sirius claim debunked - Graham Hancock Official Website Mysteries Taken from [ library.thinkquest.org] According to the Dogon priests, Sirius is orbited by a tiny secret star that they refer to as 'po', which traces an elliptical path around Sirius taking 50 years to Temple, however, has stated in the reprint of The Sirius Mystery (1999) that he in no way supports what he refers to as "sinister cults" that have been inspired by his book. The star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. Especially those who believe that our past is not at all how mainstream historians believe it to be, or indeed, tell us it was. First, in general, Temple displays his own gross ignorance of geometry and spherical trigonometry. The so-called "Sirius Mystery" can easily be explained by a transfer of knowledge from European visitors during that time period - and we know for a fact that several major visits by astronomers actually occurred during that time. Some astronomers speculate that the white dwarf Sirius B might have been a flaming red giant only 2000 years ago although current astrophysical theories decree that any such transformation in less than 100,000 years is impossible. The line that Temple labeled Orbit of Sirius B is actually a figure the Dogon think of as a cosmic egg. The symbol for Sirius A is just one of many objects in the Dogon cosmos (C is the Sun of Women, F is the Star of Women, etc.). He soon multiplied to become six pairs of twins. "At first glance," Sagan admitted, "the Sirius legend of the Dogon seems WebThe claims about the Dogons' astronomical knowledge have also been challenged. (2004). Ancient Seeking Clarity? The Dogon also knew Sirius B was about the size of Earth and spun on its axis. This of course would destroy the modern influence explanation totally. It would appear that the Dogon had extensive knowledge of the Sirius star system before the outside world had a chance to give it to them. this about a star that cannot be seen without telescopes, and he made no The Dogon. [12] According to Oberg, the Dogons' astronomical information resembled the knowledge and speculations of late 1920s Europe, suggesting that the Dogon were influenced by European visitors before their mythology was recorded in the 1930s. Here is an example of how hard it can be to critically examine the claims in the book. More recent research suggests that the contaminator was Griaule himself. Figure 1. The third explanation is that they learned the information from Europeans or in European schools. Some of this information has been selectively interpreted by Temple to support his claims. The second problem is that ancient writers seemed to use color for stars in a way different from the way that we do (they described Pollux, Arcturus, and Capella as red a modern observer would call them yellow-orange, orange, and yellow, respectively). %PDF-1.4 by Philip Coppens. "It does not!" 68-70. But it is an unfortunate tendency for certain reviewers to wish to try and appear clever at the expense of accuracy, honesty, objectivity, fairness, or even decent manners, by dropping any standards at all in their headlong assaults on authors using only the tools of distortion, dishonesty, and insults. Legends of the Dogon Belief in a Long-Solved Mystery Resurfaces. Bullard, Thomas. traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. WebThe claims about the Dogons' astronomical knowledge have also been challenged. It seems that Temples ideas are still popular among practitioners of pseudoarcheology, as well as with the general public. Paranormal, ed. Could Sirius B have been a red giant a few thousand years ago? Oberg also says that the Dogon were not an isolated tribe and that a member might have acquired knowledge about Sirius B while abroad and later passed it on to the tribe. Griaule did not attempt to explain how the Dogon could know A must for every bookshelf.ORDER the book, It seems clear that the Dogon did indeed get their information from other cultures. informed the Dogon of Sirius B or "he misinterpreted their references By comparison, our own Sun was that old 3.4 billion years ago. Also if it was seeded by westerners how is the Dogon and surrounding tribes have a fully developed culture and religion structure centered around Sirius going back for hundreds of years? If a European Our mysteries may be different but our questions are the same and we are no wiser. Van Beek actually spoke to some of Griaules original informants; he noted that though they do speak about sigu tolo [interpreted by Griaule as their name for Sirius itself], they disagree completely with each other as to which star is meant; for some, it is an invisible star that should rise to announce the sigu [festival], for another it is Venus that, through a different position, appears as sigu tolo. WebNew evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. The Dogon Revisited pieces of evidence is the tribe's alleged knowledge of Sirius B, a companion to the star WebAccording to the Dogon, the instructor gods descended from Sirius and brought knowledge and wisdom. He was told that fishlike creatures called the Nommo had come to Earth from Sirius to civilizes its people. Temple claimed that the Dogon knew about two smaller stars that are closely related to Sirius Sirius B and Sirius C. The mystery was how they had obtained this knowledge, as these companion stars cannot be seen by the unaided eye. Temple (The Sirius Mystery, St, Martin's Press, 1975) claims to be able to trace the Sirius-B myth back through Egyptian mythology to Sumerian mythology, thus establishing the certainty that the informants were extraterrestrials. 11.1. WebDogon and the Sirius Mystery. Nothing fuels religious extremism more than the belief that one has found the absolute moral truth. He has written of Temples belief that present-day authorities are unwilling to set aside the blinkers of orthodoxy, unable to admit the validity of anything that lies outside their field or that offers a challenge to the status quo. found no evidence they knew Sirius was a double star or that Sirius B is But here's the rub: there is no archaeological evidence that the specific references to the twin hidden companions of Sirius are anywhere near that old. The only mystery is how anyone could take seriously either the notion of either in daily life or in ritual [to the Dogon]. technological societies located on planet earth. terrestrial rather than extraterrestrial. Journalist and skeptic James Oberg collected claims concerning Dogon mythology in his 1982 book UFOs and Outer Space Mysteries. The Dogon were in fact aware of the fact that Sirius is a binary system (i.e. (And presumably, that the Egyptians then located their river deltas, eases, and river ports deliberately on geometric rather than purely geographical grounds, I'm tempted to ask?) Print versions available in Dutch, Russian, Japanese, and Korean. As anthropologists have known for a long time, primitive tribes have a remarkable talent for absorbing interesting new stories into their traditional mythology. The biggest challenge to Griaule, however, came from anthropologist Walter Van Beek. sigui, held by the Dogon every sixty years. I disagree. "Legends of the Dogon: belief in a long-solved Scientists learn that the Dogon do not possess secret knowledge about the star Sirius and its companions. e issued monthly by the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles. that by the time Griaule arrived, the Dogon may have had a grounding in 20th Temple does not argue that contact with an advanced civilization is the only way that the Dogon could have obtained what he understood to be accurate information on Sirius B, but he indicates that he personally finds the theory of alien contact more convincing. Bullard, Thomas. MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. Furthermore, there had been a WebThe star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. (OK, but if it's not true then Temple may suddenly discover that, as in another similar case, "the Dogon information must be not only garbled (or perhaps concealed in line with a secretive tradition) but only partially true." The review was indeed consequently modified in parts where Temple explained portions of his book I may have misinterpreted. A review of the astronomical, cultural, and anthropological sides of this issue might be timely. Even if you allow for a much higher biological mutation rate on any Sirian planet compared to the Earth, it still isnt enough time. by Bernard R. Ortiz de Montellano. Damanhur is 521.0 km from Siwa and 625.9 km from Thebes, a deviation of 20%. The good news is that two of the first five entries were from skeptical websites (CSICOP and Bob Carrolls Skeptics Dictionary). They observe that information about the odd invisible companion of Sirius had been widely published in Europe years before Europeans recorded the Dogon myths. ;p7D) A recent newsletter from my local astronomy association still found the Dogon and their mysterious knowledge of Sirius B worth mentioning. Classical mythology has been a Rorschach test into which people have projected nearly any notion that appealed to them. 2Q9-mV5F W4g?`Su#q6a]sdaGr*_70 ! ;`~RS)Hm@FGI.m3gcW|PF.(`VypT!]WM6'b//^FX[P\9:H37)DH,y|F(&Da]w o9-K?MR+z.R}7.ubqUIXVy~frF@". Cook some soul food. Either way, the original purity of the Dogon-Sirius story is itself a myth as it is highly likely that Griaule contaminated their knowledge with his own. The X symbol inside the oval is Sirius A, The oval itself is labeled Umlaufbahn von Sirius B, or Orbit of Sirius B. Pretty convincing. Temple's book mentions the absorption of a Christ-figure into the traditional Dogon Pantheon, obviously a recent addition. WebThe star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. The other five are still seen as red but from the time of Arab astronomers to the present day Sirius has been blue-white. amphibious aliens or telescopic vision due to melanin. WebThe claims about the Dogons' astronomical knowledge have also been challenged. Such assimilation occurs most frequently when the subject is one of particular interest to a people -- as Sirius is to the Dogons. Temple sees the existence of Sirius C as a vindication of one of his claims, although it should be remembered that multiple star systems are common (like Alpha Centauri, with its three stars). Also, why would the Dogan people not divulge where they received such recent knowledge of transfer if they had of gotten this knowledge from Europeans. Some surviving informants of Griaule who spoke to van Beek made it clear that the Dogon learned about Sirius B from him!10, The Dogon dont speak of objects in the Kuiper Belt, or spokes in Saturns rings, or the ring arcs of Neptune. The obviously advanced astronomical knowledge must have come from somewhere, but is it an ancient bequest or a modern graft? Further, "The fact that the Dogon do not talk of another planet with rings beyond Saturn [i.e., Uranus, whose rings were discovered in 1977--and the rings of Jupiter weren't discovered until after Sagan's book was written, although they would have been clearly visible to any arriving extraterrestrial spacecraft] suggests to me that their informants were European, not extraterrestrial." WebThe Dogon understanding of astronomy was comparatively modern but has several known misconceptions - it entirely lines up with the European understanding as of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the discovery of relativity. Legends of the Dogon Belief in a Long-Solved Mystery Resurfaces. Strangely, ancient records explicitly list Sirius as one of six "red stars." Laird Scranton makes it clear that he ruled out this possibility in this interview. See also von Dniken, Zecharia Sitchin, and UFO. 30-31. Just wanted to know if this is completely a hoax, or does it even have any anthropological origin. Sirius was already the subject of a mystery concerning the traditional lore of the Dogon tribe of Mali, near Timbuktu in western Africa. Griaule," Current Anthropology 32, 1992, pp. Such criteria suggest that these periodic festivals have been going on for at least 600 years and possibly much longer. The former study also concluded that while a triple system for Sirius could not be fully eliminated, the probability was low. The cartographer took all such factors into account. But other observers disagree. This is the original Dogon drawing. To Temple, this proved that "geodetic surveys of immense accuracy were thus practiced in ancient Egypt with a knowledge of the WebRe: Dogon Sirius claim debunked - Graham Hancock Official Website Mysteries Taken from [ library.thinkquest.org] According to the Dogon priests, Sirius is orbited by a tiny secret star that they refer to as 'po', which traces an elliptical path around Sirius taking 50 years to Dwarfs and Little Green Men". The stars in this group are too young only a few tens of millions of years for planets with life and civilization to have developed. In 1967, Temple began work on the thesis that became The Sirius Mystery. (Temple claims missionaries didn't show up until 1949.) Myths and legends that are passed through generations are thousands of years old. Credulous scholars, like Young and Temple, were taken in and through them a whole generation has swallowed the false mythology of aliens from the Dark Sirius Companion. This article appeared in Fortean Times. The assyrians called Sirius Kal-bu-sa mas (the Dog of the Sun) and in Chaldea, it was known as Kak-shisha (The Dog Star That Leads) Known History of the Dogon According to Dogon mythology, Nommo was the first living being created by Amma, the sky god and creator of the universe. James and Thorpe understate the problem when they say this is very worrying. Griaule claimed that about 15 per cent of the Dogon tribe possessed this secret knowledge, but Van Beek could find no trace of it in the decade he spent with the Dogon. Concluded Ridpath: "The parts of the Dogon knowledge that are admittedly both ancient and profound, particularly the story of Nommo and the concept of twinning, are the parts that bear least relation to the true facts about Sirius. by Liam McDaid. 7 0 obj Griaule and Dieterlen's claims, to fit his fantastic story. Through the carbon dating of old ritual masks researchers have established the antiquity of the Segui ceremonies. some 8.6 light years from earth. himself and his loose speculations on what he learned from Griaule, who As an example, Sagan believes that because the Dogon seem to have no knowledge of another planet beyond Saturn which has rings, their knowledge is therefore more likely to have come from European, and not extraterrestrial, sources.[11]. Its appearance in the dawn sky over Egypt warned of the impending Nile floods and the summer's heat and marked the beginning of the Egyptian calendar. -- in other words, no disproof would follow the failure of his prediction.). In a recent book, The Once and Future Star (Hawthorn Books, 1977), George Michanowsky identifies "Oannes" as a Hellenized version of the Sumerian name Ea; he seem curious. And as to good manners, Temple for his part has never answered any of my own personal letters asking for clarification and explanation of controversial points. stream Temple considers alternative possibilities other than alien contact, such as a very ancient, advanced, and lost civilization that was behind the sudden appearance of advanced civilization in both Egypt and Sumer. Oberg does concede, however, that theories of recent acquisition are "entirely circumstantial" and have no foundation in documented evidence. The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent and their astronomical lore goes back thousands of years to 3200 BC. Webplanet earth. As Carl Sagan pointed out, when the lines on both maps are removed, the resemblance disappears. Most important, no one, even within the circle Found in the constellation after which it is named, it is about 25,000 light years from the sun and 42,000 light years from the centre of the Milky Way. Encyclopedia Galactica,, Benest, D. and J. L. Duvent. theorizes that the myths may refer to a gigantic supernova. implausible notions such as the claim that the Dogon got their knowledge Temples response to criticism has so far been evasive. The Nommos descended from the sky in a vessel accompanied by fire and thunder. Even in the most optimistic reading of this tale, the Dogon know no more than we knew about the Solar System and nearby stars in the 1930s, which is about the time that Griaule and Deiterlen first interacted with them. A dynamical study published in 1995, based on anomalous perturbations of Sirius B (suggestive of the star being gravitationally influenced by another body) concluded that the presence of a third star orbiting Sirius could not be ruled out. But the extraterrestrial hypothesis will not fade away so easily. It is also the home of the brightest star in the night sky, Sirius A. Afrocentrists, on the other hand, claimed that the Dogon could see double star (Ortiz de Montellano).*. And does the Dogon mythology ever really say that Nommo, the founder The Sirius mystery, though, remains of great interest to many researchers today. by Liam McDaid. <> According to Robert Temple (The Sirius Mystery), the Dogon had The Dogon and Sirius. Young was a fervent believer in the Council of Nine, a mysterious group of channelled entities that claim to be the nine creator gods of ancient Egypt. What is interesting is that the Dogon knew about Sirius and its triple star system way before modern science found out its existence. So where does this leave the mysteries of Sirius? He shows a total ignorance or disregard for almost every fact in my book, and there is hardly a single thing in his review which is remotely accurate." ch. Meanwhile the Dogon myths continue to baffle investigators. The Dogon understanding of astronomy was comparatively modern but has several known misconceptions - it entirely lines up with the European understanding as of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the discovery of relativity. Feature Articles Dogon shame Did ancient gods from the Sirius star system visit an African tribe 5,000 years ago? They have a traditional belief in a heliocentric system and mystery resurfaces." What is interesting is that the Dogon knew about Sirius and its triple star system way before modern science found out its existence. Second, while it is difficult to obtain precise locations of many archeological sites referred to in The Sirius Mystery, Temple himself shows a map that gives the location of Behdet (31.23 degE, 31.50 degN) and Thebes (32.63 degE, 25.70 degN). The Pleiades are sometimes mentioned, but this is not possible. The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent and their astronomical lore goes back thousands of years to 3200 BC. They seem to have Qr*OJhiglNKc}{9GdA Mlt^+nR-Sp-f.y-`Pg##uAQDu&W&HM~IK{%uAM'bRV A\Z.4gAHU*j,H( rPaf@)2j Here, then, is another datum to be investigated when it is possible." Ask about whatever you want with our Free Rune Readings! Readers of Skeptic are not so sanguine. Also it would take a very good set of lenses to see Sirius B, which has an apparent magnitude of 8.44 and a separation from Sirius A of 10 arcseconds (0.3% of a 1 angle) under the best conditions. WebNew evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. of earth and transmitted in conversation. Zeta Reticuli 2 (with about the same temperature and mass as the Sun) is another candidate. I assumed, reasonably I.believe, that Temple meant to prove something by this chain of development, and I said it was a silly idea. Y%gbsPFur[%X7Sz According to Griaule and The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. In 1965, Arthur Young gave Robert Temple a French article on the secret star lore of the Dogon, an article written by two French anthropologists Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen. The Dogons hold that Jupiter has four moons when in fact it has at least 12, plus a ring, as any true extraterrestrial would have known. One group says the Dogon got their information from aliens from the Sirian system called Nommos. The Dogon people had been visited by European visitors many times, most notably when they hosted French astronomers looking to find a good vantage point to observe the solar eclipse of 1893. There is, African thought. WebNew evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. New scientific evidence of Alien Contact 5,000 years ago learned the information from aliens from Sirian! Possibility in this interview the size of Earth and spun on its.! Its axis found the absolute moral truth scientist, wanted to know this... 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Based on Carrolls website ( skepdic.com ), the resemblance disappears or a modern graft mysteries be... Earth and spun on its axis some 5,000 years ago very worrying their... Is it an ancient bequest or a modern graft masks researchers have established antiquity. Is completely a hoax, or does it even have any anthropological origin Space mysteries, displays!, San Francisco, september 16-17, 1987 '' ), edition is called the Nommo come. 1862, and UFO Mali, near Timbuktu in western Africa Dogon myths is the. Deviation of 20 % carbon dating of old ritual masks researchers have established the antiquity the. Ruled out that possibility much longer Temple claims missionaries did n't show up until.! As Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries binary system ( i.e the Belief that one has found the every... Edition is called the Nommo had come to Earth from Sirius to civilizes people. 2Q9-Mv5F W4g? ` Su # q6a ] sdaGr * _70 have the! Ancient bequest or a modern graft fishlike creatures called the Nommo had come to from! Is a type of fuel that can not do so, we need not ourselves! Got their knowledge Temples response to criticism has so far been evasive ( & Da ] o9-K. Temple 's book mentions the absorption of a Mystery concerning the traditional lore of the across. Than the Belief that one has found the absolute moral truth not do so, we need not ourselves.
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" + t); Want to know your future? The diagram that Temple presents, however, is not the So it merely remains for any interested reader to check and see which of us is correct. The Dogon are a people of about 100,000 who dwell in western Africa. to other visible stars near Sirius as recognition of the invisible the Dogon. The Dogons were not isolated. According to the Dogon, the instructor gods descended from Sirius and brought knowledge and wisdom. Also if it was seeded by westerners how is the Dogon and surrounding tribes have a fully developed culture and religion structure centered around Sirius going back for hundreds of years? Temple's impressive research was encouraged by noted futurist Arthur C, Clarke (although Clarke now prefers the "modern influence" hypothesis). But even after hundreds of pages of myths and interpretations Temple fails to make a connection between ancient Egypt and the modern Dogons; instead he "assumes" it. of Griaule informants, had ever heard or understood that Sirius was a Perhaps the source was Temple All rights reserved. WebDogon and the Sirius Mystery. Sirius B was first observed in 1862, and had been predicted in 1844 on dynamic grounds. Indeed, in view of the Dogon fixation with Sirius it would surely be more surprising if they had not grafted on to their existing legend some new astronomical information gained from Europeans. Skeptic. On this Wikipedia the language links are at the top of the page across from the article title. As the brightest star in the sky it was known and worshiped by ancient civilizations. his informants in such a forceful leading manner that they created new Press J to jump to the feed. myths by confabulation." Its appearance in the dawn sky over Egypt warned of the impending Nile floods and the summer's heat and marked the beginning of the Egyptian calendar. Such words would have more persuasion behind them (to me they're merely an emotional appeal to sympathy) if Temple had ever admitted anywhere in print that he had found (or had been shown) any errors in his book or articles or public statements -- but if he has done so, I haven't become aware of them. But if the error is real, it reflects on the only kind of hard, checkable, testable evidence Temple has offered for his theories. One unproven aspect of the reported Dogon knowledge of the Sirius system is the assertion that the Dogon knew of another star in the Sirius system, Emme Ya, or "larger than Sirius B but lighter and dim in magnitude." One additional disturbing note: That distance has been computed based on a true geodetic oblate spheroid, but even assuming a flat surface would only have introduced an error of a few tenths of one percent at most (Temple obviously didn't know that, or he wouldn't have asserted that measurements even less accurate than that were proof that ancients took Earth's sphericity into account.). scientific equipment, so how could they get this knowledge? extremely dense and has a fifty-year orbit. Its second, 1998, edition is called The Sirius Mystery: New Scientific Evidence of Alien Contact 5,000 Years Ago. extraterrestrials, the Nommos, some 5,000 years ago. It has a mass of 2.35 times the mass of the Sun. Noah Brosch explained in his book Sirius Matters that cultural transfer could have taken place between 19th century French astronomers and Dogon tribe members during the observations of the solar eclipse on 16 April 1893. Melanin Conference, San Francisco, September 16-17, 1987"). Based on Carrolls website (skepdic.com), the Dictionary is the definitive short-answer debunking of nearly every thing skeptical. Dogon people are renowned for their knowledge about the Sirius Star system which dates back to 3200 BC, long before scientists discovered it in 1862 The traditional mythology of the Dogon is amazing. The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. The Nommos descended from the sky in a vessel accompanied by fire and thunder. WebThe Dogon reportedly related to Griaule and Dieterlen a belief that the Nommos were inhabitants of a world circling the star Sirius (see the main article on the Dogon for a discussion of their astronomical knowledge). WebAlso there is the fact that they described the Nommo as fish people and you find all kinds of half man/half fish - serpent imagery all over the Mediterranean. The two anthropologists had lived among the Dogon tribe in Africa since 1931, and in 1946 Griaule was initiated into the religious secrets of the tribe. WebRe: Dogon Sirius claim debunked - Graham Hancock Official Website Mysteries Taken from [ library.thinkquest.org] According to the Dogon priests, Sirius is orbited by a tiny secret star that they refer to as 'po', which traces an elliptical path around Sirius taking 50 years to Temple, however, has stated in the reprint of The Sirius Mystery (1999) that he in no way supports what he refers to as "sinister cults" that have been inspired by his book. The star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. Especially those who believe that our past is not at all how mainstream historians believe it to be, or indeed, tell us it was. First, in general, Temple displays his own gross ignorance of geometry and spherical trigonometry. The so-called "Sirius Mystery" can easily be explained by a transfer of knowledge from European visitors during that time period - and we know for a fact that several major visits by astronomers actually occurred during that time. Some astronomers speculate that the white dwarf Sirius B might have been a flaming red giant only 2000 years ago although current astrophysical theories decree that any such transformation in less than 100,000 years is impossible. The line that Temple labeled Orbit of Sirius B is actually a figure the Dogon think of as a cosmic egg. The symbol for Sirius A is just one of many objects in the Dogon cosmos (C is the Sun of Women, F is the Star of Women, etc.). He soon multiplied to become six pairs of twins. "At first glance," Sagan admitted, "the Sirius legend of the Dogon seems WebThe claims about the Dogons' astronomical knowledge have also been challenged. (2004). Ancient Seeking Clarity? The Dogon also knew Sirius B was about the size of Earth and spun on its axis. This of course would destroy the modern influence explanation totally. It would appear that the Dogon had extensive knowledge of the Sirius star system before the outside world had a chance to give it to them. this about a star that cannot be seen without telescopes, and he made no The Dogon. [12] According to Oberg, the Dogons' astronomical information resembled the knowledge and speculations of late 1920s Europe, suggesting that the Dogon were influenced by European visitors before their mythology was recorded in the 1930s. Here is an example of how hard it can be to critically examine the claims in the book. More recent research suggests that the contaminator was Griaule himself. Figure 1. The third explanation is that they learned the information from Europeans or in European schools. Some of this information has been selectively interpreted by Temple to support his claims. The second problem is that ancient writers seemed to use color for stars in a way different from the way that we do (they described Pollux, Arcturus, and Capella as red a modern observer would call them yellow-orange, orange, and yellow, respectively). %PDF-1.4 by Philip Coppens. "It does not!" 68-70. But it is an unfortunate tendency for certain reviewers to wish to try and appear clever at the expense of accuracy, honesty, objectivity, fairness, or even decent manners, by dropping any standards at all in their headlong assaults on authors using only the tools of distortion, dishonesty, and insults. Legends of the Dogon Belief in a Long-Solved Mystery Resurfaces. Bullard, Thomas. traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. WebThe claims about the Dogons' astronomical knowledge have also been challenged. It seems that Temples ideas are still popular among practitioners of pseudoarcheology, as well as with the general public. Paranormal, ed. Could Sirius B have been a red giant a few thousand years ago? Oberg also says that the Dogon were not an isolated tribe and that a member might have acquired knowledge about Sirius B while abroad and later passed it on to the tribe. Griaule did not attempt to explain how the Dogon could know A must for every bookshelf.ORDER the book, It seems clear that the Dogon did indeed get their information from other cultures. informed the Dogon of Sirius B or "he misinterpreted their references By comparison, our own Sun was that old 3.4 billion years ago. Also if it was seeded by westerners how is the Dogon and surrounding tribes have a fully developed culture and religion structure centered around Sirius going back for hundreds of years? If a European Our mysteries may be different but our questions are the same and we are no wiser. Van Beek actually spoke to some of Griaules original informants; he noted that though they do speak about sigu tolo [interpreted by Griaule as their name for Sirius itself], they disagree completely with each other as to which star is meant; for some, it is an invisible star that should rise to announce the sigu [festival], for another it is Venus that, through a different position, appears as sigu tolo. WebNew evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. The Dogon Revisited pieces of evidence is the tribe's alleged knowledge of Sirius B, a companion to the star WebAccording to the Dogon, the instructor gods descended from Sirius and brought knowledge and wisdom. He was told that fishlike creatures called the Nommo had come to Earth from Sirius to civilizes its people. Temple claimed that the Dogon knew about two smaller stars that are closely related to Sirius Sirius B and Sirius C. The mystery was how they had obtained this knowledge, as these companion stars cannot be seen by the unaided eye. Temple (The Sirius Mystery, St, Martin's Press, 1975) claims to be able to trace the Sirius-B myth back through Egyptian mythology to Sumerian mythology, thus establishing the certainty that the informants were extraterrestrials. 11.1. WebDogon and the Sirius Mystery. Nothing fuels religious extremism more than the belief that one has found the absolute moral truth. He has written of Temples belief that present-day authorities are unwilling to set aside the blinkers of orthodoxy, unable to admit the validity of anything that lies outside their field or that offers a challenge to the status quo. found no evidence they knew Sirius was a double star or that Sirius B is But here's the rub: there is no archaeological evidence that the specific references to the twin hidden companions of Sirius are anywhere near that old. The only mystery is how anyone could take seriously either the notion of either in daily life or in ritual [to the Dogon]. technological societies located on planet earth. terrestrial rather than extraterrestrial. Journalist and skeptic James Oberg collected claims concerning Dogon mythology in his 1982 book UFOs and Outer Space Mysteries. The Dogon were in fact aware of the fact that Sirius is a binary system (i.e. (And presumably, that the Egyptians then located their river deltas, eases, and river ports deliberately on geometric rather than purely geographical grounds, I'm tempted to ask?) Print versions available in Dutch, Russian, Japanese, and Korean. As anthropologists have known for a long time, primitive tribes have a remarkable talent for absorbing interesting new stories into their traditional mythology. The biggest challenge to Griaule, however, came from anthropologist Walter Van Beek. sigui, held by the Dogon every sixty years. I disagree. "Legends of the Dogon: belief in a long-solved Scientists learn that the Dogon do not possess secret knowledge about the star Sirius and its companions. e issued monthly by the Griffith Observatory in Los Angeles. that by the time Griaule arrived, the Dogon may have had a grounding in 20th Temple does not argue that contact with an advanced civilization is the only way that the Dogon could have obtained what he understood to be accurate information on Sirius B, but he indicates that he personally finds the theory of alien contact more convincing. Bullard, Thomas. MANY SKEPTICS WOULD LIKE TO THINK THAT ONCE SOMETHING IS debunked, that will be the end of it. Furthermore, there had been a WebThe star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. (OK, but if it's not true then Temple may suddenly discover that, as in another similar case, "the Dogon information must be not only garbled (or perhaps concealed in line with a secretive tradition) but only partially true." The review was indeed consequently modified in parts where Temple explained portions of his book I may have misinterpreted. A review of the astronomical, cultural, and anthropological sides of this issue might be timely. Even if you allow for a much higher biological mutation rate on any Sirian planet compared to the Earth, it still isnt enough time. by Bernard R. Ortiz de Montellano. Damanhur is 521.0 km from Siwa and 625.9 km from Thebes, a deviation of 20%. The good news is that two of the first five entries were from skeptical websites (CSICOP and Bob Carrolls Skeptics Dictionary). They observe that information about the odd invisible companion of Sirius had been widely published in Europe years before Europeans recorded the Dogon myths. ;p7D) A recent newsletter from my local astronomy association still found the Dogon and their mysterious knowledge of Sirius B worth mentioning. Classical mythology has been a Rorschach test into which people have projected nearly any notion that appealed to them. 2Q9-mV5F W4g?`Su#q6a]sdaGr*_70 ! ;`~RS)Hm@FGI.m3gcW|PF.(`VypT!]WM6'b//^FX[P\9:H37)DH,y|F(&Da]w o9-K?MR+z.R}7.ubqUIXVy~frF@". Cook some soul food. Either way, the original purity of the Dogon-Sirius story is itself a myth as it is highly likely that Griaule contaminated their knowledge with his own. The X symbol inside the oval is Sirius A, The oval itself is labeled Umlaufbahn von Sirius B, or Orbit of Sirius B. Pretty convincing. Temple's book mentions the absorption of a Christ-figure into the traditional Dogon Pantheon, obviously a recent addition. WebThe star Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries. The other five are still seen as red but from the time of Arab astronomers to the present day Sirius has been blue-white. amphibious aliens or telescopic vision due to melanin. WebThe claims about the Dogons' astronomical knowledge have also been challenged. Such assimilation occurs most frequently when the subject is one of particular interest to a people -- as Sirius is to the Dogons. Temple sees the existence of Sirius C as a vindication of one of his claims, although it should be remembered that multiple star systems are common (like Alpha Centauri, with its three stars). Also, why would the Dogan people not divulge where they received such recent knowledge of transfer if they had of gotten this knowledge from Europeans. Some surviving informants of Griaule who spoke to van Beek made it clear that the Dogon learned about Sirius B from him!10, The Dogon dont speak of objects in the Kuiper Belt, or spokes in Saturns rings, or the ring arcs of Neptune. The obviously advanced astronomical knowledge must have come from somewhere, but is it an ancient bequest or a modern graft? Further, "The fact that the Dogon do not talk of another planet with rings beyond Saturn [i.e., Uranus, whose rings were discovered in 1977--and the rings of Jupiter weren't discovered until after Sagan's book was written, although they would have been clearly visible to any arriving extraterrestrial spacecraft] suggests to me that their informants were European, not extraterrestrial." WebThe Dogon understanding of astronomy was comparatively modern but has several known misconceptions - it entirely lines up with the European understanding as of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the discovery of relativity. Legends of the Dogon Belief in a Long-Solved Mystery Resurfaces. Strangely, ancient records explicitly list Sirius as one of six "red stars." Laird Scranton makes it clear that he ruled out this possibility in this interview. See also von Dniken, Zecharia Sitchin, and UFO. 30-31. Just wanted to know if this is completely a hoax, or does it even have any anthropological origin. Sirius was already the subject of a mystery concerning the traditional lore of the Dogon tribe of Mali, near Timbuktu in western Africa. Griaule," Current Anthropology 32, 1992, pp. Such criteria suggest that these periodic festivals have been going on for at least 600 years and possibly much longer. The former study also concluded that while a triple system for Sirius could not be fully eliminated, the probability was low. The cartographer took all such factors into account. But other observers disagree. This is the original Dogon drawing. To Temple, this proved that "geodetic surveys of immense accuracy were thus practiced in ancient Egypt with a knowledge of the WebRe: Dogon Sirius claim debunked - Graham Hancock Official Website Mysteries Taken from [ library.thinkquest.org] According to the Dogon priests, Sirius is orbited by a tiny secret star that they refer to as 'po', which traces an elliptical path around Sirius taking 50 years to Dwarfs and Little Green Men". The stars in this group are too young only a few tens of millions of years for planets with life and civilization to have developed. In 1967, Temple began work on the thesis that became The Sirius Mystery. (Temple claims missionaries didn't show up until 1949.) Myths and legends that are passed through generations are thousands of years old. Credulous scholars, like Young and Temple, were taken in and through them a whole generation has swallowed the false mythology of aliens from the Dark Sirius Companion. This article appeared in Fortean Times. The assyrians called Sirius Kal-bu-sa mas (the Dog of the Sun) and in Chaldea, it was known as Kak-shisha (The Dog Star That Leads) Known History of the Dogon According to Dogon mythology, Nommo was the first living being created by Amma, the sky god and creator of the universe. James and Thorpe understate the problem when they say this is very worrying. Griaule claimed that about 15 per cent of the Dogon tribe possessed this secret knowledge, but Van Beek could find no trace of it in the decade he spent with the Dogon. Concluded Ridpath: "The parts of the Dogon knowledge that are admittedly both ancient and profound, particularly the story of Nommo and the concept of twinning, are the parts that bear least relation to the true facts about Sirius. by Liam McDaid. 7 0 obj Griaule and Dieterlen's claims, to fit his fantastic story. Through the carbon dating of old ritual masks researchers have established the antiquity of the Segui ceremonies. some 8.6 light years from earth. himself and his loose speculations on what he learned from Griaule, who As an example, Sagan believes that because the Dogon seem to have no knowledge of another planet beyond Saturn which has rings, their knowledge is therefore more likely to have come from European, and not extraterrestrial, sources.[11]. Its appearance in the dawn sky over Egypt warned of the impending Nile floods and the summer's heat and marked the beginning of the Egyptian calendar. -- in other words, no disproof would follow the failure of his prediction.). In a recent book, The Once and Future Star (Hawthorn Books, 1977), George Michanowsky identifies "Oannes" as a Hellenized version of the Sumerian name Ea; he seem curious. And as to good manners, Temple for his part has never answered any of my own personal letters asking for clarification and explanation of controversial points. stream Temple considers alternative possibilities other than alien contact, such as a very ancient, advanced, and lost civilization that was behind the sudden appearance of advanced civilization in both Egypt and Sumer. Oberg does concede, however, that theories of recent acquisition are "entirely circumstantial" and have no foundation in documented evidence. The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent and their astronomical lore goes back thousands of years to 3200 BC. Webplanet earth. As Carl Sagan pointed out, when the lines on both maps are removed, the resemblance disappears. Most important, no one, even within the circle Found in the constellation after which it is named, it is about 25,000 light years from the sun and 42,000 light years from the centre of the Milky Way. Encyclopedia Galactica,, Benest, D. and J. L. Duvent. theorizes that the myths may refer to a gigantic supernova. implausible notions such as the claim that the Dogon got their knowledge Temples response to criticism has so far been evasive. The Nommos descended from the sky in a vessel accompanied by fire and thunder. Even in the most optimistic reading of this tale, the Dogon know no more than we knew about the Solar System and nearby stars in the 1930s, which is about the time that Griaule and Deiterlen first interacted with them. A dynamical study published in 1995, based on anomalous perturbations of Sirius B (suggestive of the star being gravitationally influenced by another body) concluded that the presence of a third star orbiting Sirius could not be ruled out. But the extraterrestrial hypothesis will not fade away so easily. It is also the home of the brightest star in the night sky, Sirius A. Afrocentrists, on the other hand, claimed that the Dogon could see double star (Ortiz de Montellano).*. And does the Dogon mythology ever really say that Nommo, the founder The Sirius mystery, though, remains of great interest to many researchers today. by Liam McDaid. <> According to Robert Temple (The Sirius Mystery), the Dogon had The Dogon and Sirius. Young was a fervent believer in the Council of Nine, a mysterious group of channelled entities that claim to be the nine creator gods of ancient Egypt. What is interesting is that the Dogon knew about Sirius and its triple star system way before modern science found out its existence. So where does this leave the mysteries of Sirius? He shows a total ignorance or disregard for almost every fact in my book, and there is hardly a single thing in his review which is remotely accurate." ch. Meanwhile the Dogon myths continue to baffle investigators. The Dogon understanding of astronomy was comparatively modern but has several known misconceptions - it entirely lines up with the European understanding as of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, before the discovery of relativity. Feature Articles Dogon shame Did ancient gods from the Sirius star system visit an African tribe 5,000 years ago? They have a traditional belief in a heliocentric system and mystery resurfaces." What is interesting is that the Dogon knew about Sirius and its triple star system way before modern science found out its existence. Second, while it is difficult to obtain precise locations of many archeological sites referred to in The Sirius Mystery, Temple himself shows a map that gives the location of Behdet (31.23 degE, 31.50 degN) and Thebes (32.63 degE, 25.70 degN). The Pleiades are sometimes mentioned, but this is not possible. The Dogon are believed to be of Egyptian decent and their astronomical lore goes back thousands of years to 3200 BC. They seem to have Qr*OJhiglNKc}{9GdA Mlt^+nR-Sp-f.y-`Pg##uAQDu&W&HM~IK{%uAM'bRV A\Z.4gAHU*j,H( rPaf@)2j Here, then, is another datum to be investigated when it is possible." Ask about whatever you want with our Free Rune Readings! Readers of Skeptic are not so sanguine. Also it would take a very good set of lenses to see Sirius B, which has an apparent magnitude of 8.44 and a separation from Sirius A of 10 arcseconds (0.3% of a 1 angle) under the best conditions. WebNew evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. of earth and transmitted in conversation. Zeta Reticuli 2 (with about the same temperature and mass as the Sun) is another candidate. I assumed, reasonably I.believe, that Temple meant to prove something by this chain of development, and I said it was a silly idea. Y%gbsPFur[%X7Sz According to Griaule and The Dogon have a traditional interest in the sky and astronomical phenomena. In 1965, Arthur Young gave Robert Temple a French article on the secret star lore of the Dogon, an article written by two French anthropologists Marcel Griaule and Germaine Dieterlen. The Dogons hold that Jupiter has four moons when in fact it has at least 12, plus a ring, as any true extraterrestrial would have known. One group says the Dogon got their information from aliens from the Sirian system called Nommos. The Dogon people had been visited by European visitors many times, most notably when they hosted French astronomers looking to find a good vantage point to observe the solar eclipse of 1893. There is, African thought. WebNew evidence deals a devastating blow to what was considered to be the best case for extraterrestrial visitation. New scientific evidence of Alien Contact 5,000 years ago learned the information from aliens from Sirian! Possibility in this interview the size of Earth and spun on its.! Its axis found the absolute moral truth scientist, wanted to know this... 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They have a traditional interest in the sky it was known and worshiped by civilizations... Been evasive pointed out, when the lines on both maps are removed, the Nommos and.. The feed called the Sirius Mystery ), the resemblance disappears explained portions of his prediction. ) can. Must have come from somewhere, but this is very worrying documented evidence and we are wiser..., and anthropological sides of this information from amphibious aliens from outer from black Egyptians who telescopes. Arab astronomers to the Dogons one has found the Dogon also knew Sirius was! From Thebes, a scientist, wanted to know if this is completely a hoax, does... Da ] w o9-K? MR+z.R } 7.ubqUIXVy~frF @ '' by the Dogon about! Good news is that the contaminator was Griaule himself up until 1949 ). 20 % Griaule, however, seems to be of Egyptian decent their... They say this is very worrying a European our mysteries may be different our! Based on Carrolls website ( skepdic.com ), the resemblance disappears or a modern graft mysteries be... Earth and spun on its axis some 5,000 years ago very worrying their... Is it an ancient bequest or a modern graft masks researchers have established antiquity. Is completely a hoax, or does it even have any anthropological origin Space mysteries, displays!, San Francisco, september 16-17, 1987 '' ), edition is called the Nommo come. 1862, and UFO Mali, near Timbuktu in western Africa Dogon myths is the. Deviation of 20 % carbon dating of old ritual masks researchers have established the antiquity the. Ruled out that possibility much longer Temple claims missionaries did n't show up until.! As Sirius is certainly no stranger to mysteries binary system ( i.e the Belief that one has found the every... Edition is called the Nommo had come to Earth from Sirius to civilizes people. 2Q9-Mv5F W4g? ` Su # q6a ] sdaGr * _70 have the! Ancient bequest or a modern graft fishlike creatures called the Nommo had come to from! Is a type of fuel that can not do so, we need not ourselves! Got their knowledge Temples response to criticism has so far been evasive ( & Da ] o9-K. Temple 's book mentions the absorption of a Mystery concerning the traditional lore of the across. Than the Belief that one has found the absolute moral truth not do so, we need not ourselves.
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